<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto">Danke für die Info! Wir verwenden BFD mittlerweile zu allen unseren Transits. Bei IXP Peerings wird BFD aber mW. bisher kaum bis garnicht eingesetzt. Alleine schon da es eine Zeit lang grobe Probleme zwischen den BFD-Implementierungen auf unterschiedlichen Routing-Plattformen von Cisco/Juniper/Nokia/Huawei gab.<div><br></div><div>Wie alles im Leben hat aber auch BFD div. Nachteile in operativen Betrieb. Z.B. schnell mal was umpatchen geht mit BFD nicht mehr, da die BGP-Session sofort einen teardown hinlegt, was aber ja auch gewollt ist wenn das Forwarding zwischen beiden Routern weg ist ;-) Man muss also vorher entweder die BFD-Session manuell shutten oder das fall-over-bfd beim BGP Neighbor kurzzeitig rausnehmen.</div><div><br></div><div>lg</div><div>Dominic<br><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">Am 18.12.2020 um 13:24 schrieb Alexander Terczka <alex@mail.at>:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">
  
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      Aus meiner Sicht war das heutige Problem eher ein Problem der
      Payload und kein BGP Thema an sich.<br>
      Ich habe in etwa 35% packet loss zu peers und 10% DUPs gesehen.
      D.h. alle BGP Sessions<br>
      die diesen Packetloss überlebt haben, haben zu payload packet loss
      geführt. Nicht alle BGP Sessions<br>
      gingen down.<br>
      <br>
      Das Thema könnte also sein, BGP mit BFD abzusichern. Wie seht Ihr
      das ?<br>
      <br>
      lg<br>
      AlexT<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      On 18.12.20 13:14, Dominic Schallert wrote:<br>
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      Spannend, Danke! Mich würde interessieren, welche
      Konfigurationswerte für BGP Dampening real wirklich Sinn machen.
      Kenne selber einige ISPs die ihr Dampening sehr strikt
      konfiguriert haben. Die Default Werte unter Cisco (1000, 15, 750,
      2000, 60) finde ich persönlich aber etwas harsch. Ist hier relativ
      gut erklärt > <a href="https://ccieblog.co.uk/bgp/bgp-dampening" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://ccieblog.co.uk/bgp/bgp-dampening</a> 
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      <div class="">Lg<br class="">
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                  <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                    <div class="">Am 18.12.2020 um 13:02 schrieb Klaus
                      Darilion <<a href="mailto:klaus.darilion@nic.at" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">klaus.darilion@nic.at</a>>:</div>
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                        <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
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                          Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                            Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
                            125);" class="">Wenn wir bei RcodeZero Tests
                            oder Wartungen machen, dann sind wir
                            eigentlich nicht zimperlicht und BGP
                            Sessions werden oft restartet - mir ist
                            dabei aber noch aufgefallen, dass wir
                            dadurch ein Dampening irgendwo ausgelöst
                            hätten.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
                        <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                          12pt; font-family: "Times New
                          Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                            Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
                            125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div>
                        <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                          12pt; font-family: "Times New
                          Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                            Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
                            125);" class="">lg<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
                        <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                          12pt; font-family: "Times New
                          Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                            Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
                            125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div>
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                            <div style="border-style: solid none none;
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                              rgb(225, 225, 225); padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;" class="">
                              <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                                font-size: 12pt; font-family:
                                "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                                    Calibri, sans-serif;" class="" lang="DE">Von:</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                                  Calibri, sans-serif;" class="" lang="DE"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>atnog
                                  <<a href="mailto:atnog-bounces@atnog.at" style="color: purple;
                                    text-decoration: underline;" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">atnog-bounces@atnog.at</a>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">Im Auftrag von<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Dominic
                                  Schallert<br class="">
                                  <b class="">Gesendet:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Freitag,
                                  18. Dezember 2020 12:55<br class="">
                                  <b class="">An:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Johannes
                                  Wagner <<a href="mailto:j.wagner@netplanet.at" style="color: purple;
                                    text-decoration: underline;" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">j.wagner@netplanet.at</a>><br class="">
                                  <b class="">Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:atnog@atnog.at" style="color: purple;
                                    text-decoration: underline;" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">atnog@atnog.at</a><br class="">
                                  <b class="">Betreff:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re:
                                  [atnog] VIX Outage<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
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                          <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                            font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times
                            New Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
                          <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                            font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times
                            New Roman", serif;" class="">Hi
                            Johannes,<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                          <div class="">
                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times
                              New Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
                          </div>
                          <div class="">
                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times
                              New Roman", serif;" class="">Du
                              meinst Route dampening?  Mein letzter
                              Stand war, dass es mittlerweile nicht mehr
                              so verbreitet und auch heute auch nicht
                              mehr wirklich Best Practice ist. Route
                              dampening wurde ja damals zu einer Zeit
                              eingeführt, als flapping insb.
                              hinsichtlich CPU power auf Routern noch
                              ein echtes Problem war. Mit modernen
                              Routern ist das aber normalerweise nicht
                              mehr so das Problem.<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times
                              New Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
                          </div>
                          <div class="">
                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times
                              New Roman", serif;" class="">Frage in
                              die Runde - verwendet hier jemand BGP
                              dampening und ja mit welchen Parametern
                              (penalty, supress limit, reuse limit,
                              etc.)? Sehen eure Parameter zu
                              Transits/Downstreams/Peers anders aus?
                              Gibt es vielleicht bessere Alternativen zu
                              bgp dampening?<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times
                              New Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
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                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times
                              New Roman", serif;" class="">Lg<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times
                              New Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
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                              <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
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                                "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><br class="">
                                <br class="">
                                <o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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                                margin-bottom: 5pt;" class="">
                                <div class="">
                                  <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                                    font-size: 12pt; font-family:
                                    "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">Am 18.12.2020 um 12:41
                                    schrieb Johannes Wagner <<a href="mailto:j.wagner@netplanet.at" style="color: purple;
                                      text-decoration: underline;" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">j.wagner@netplanet.at</a>>:<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                                </div>
                                <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                                  font-size: 12pt; font-family:
                                  "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
                                <div class="">
                                  <div class="">
                                    <div class="">
                                      <div class="">
                                        <div class="">
                                          <div class="">
                                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                              0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                              font-family: "Times
                                              New Roman", serif;" class="">Hallo,<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                                          </div>
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                                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                              0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                              font-family: "Times
                                              New Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
                                          </div>
                                          <div class="">
                                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                              0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                              font-family: "Times
                                              New Roman", serif;" class="">es war ja nicht
                                              „ein Ausfall“ das waren
                                              viele Flaps und ich
                                              schätze nicht jeder hat
                                              das in der Config
                                              berücksichtigt.<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                                          </div>
                                          <div class="">
                                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                              0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                              font-family: "Times
                                              New Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
                                          </div>
                                          <div class="">
                                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                              0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                              font-family: "Times
                                              New Roman", serif;" class="">Liebe Grüße
                                              Johannes Wagner<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                                          </div>
                                        </div>
                                        <div class="">
                                          <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                            0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                            font-family: "Times New
                                            Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                      <div id="id-c4032d79-0b7e-4d73-8f79-371d3e12cd3f" class="">
                                        <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm
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                                          <hr class="" width="98%" size="3" align="center"></div>
                                        <div id="divRplyFwdMsg" class="">
                                          <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                            0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                            font-family: "Times New
                                            Roman", serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-family:
                                                Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Von:</span></b><span style="font-family:
                                              Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>atnog
                                              <<a href="mailto:atnog-bounces@atnog.at" style="color: purple;
                                                text-decoration:
                                                underline;" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">atnog-bounces@atnog.at</a>>
                                              im Auftrag von Dominic
                                              Schallert <<a href="mailto:ds@schallert.com" style="color: purple;
                                                text-decoration:
                                                underline;" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">ds@schallert.com</a>><br class="">
                                              <b class="">Gesendet:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Freitag, Dezember 18, 2020 12:36<br class="">
                                              <b class="">An:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:atnog@atnog.at" style="color: purple; text-decoration:
                                                underline;" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">atnog@atnog.at</a><br class="">
                                              <b class="">Betreff:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[atnog] VIX Outage<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
                                          <div class="">
                                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                              0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                              font-family: "Times
                                              New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-family:
                                                Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
                                          </div>
                                        </div>
                                        <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                          0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                          font-family: "Times New
                                          Roman", serif;" class="">Hallo
                                          Liste,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                                        <div class="">
                                          <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                            0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                            font-family: "Times New
                                            Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
                                        </div>
                                        <div class="">
                                          <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                            0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                            font-family: "Times New
                                            Roman", serif;" class="">der VIX hatte
                                            offenbar kurz vor 12h00
                                            einen gröberen Holperer. Es
                                            hat praktisch alle ISPs in
                                            AT betroffen. Hier in
                                            Vorarlberg waren zeitweise
                                            Magenta, A1 und weitere
                                            de-fakto komplett offline.
                                            Wobei es wohl primär an den
                                            Umschaltzeiten (z.B. BGP
                                            ohne BFD?) gelegen haben
                                            dürfte, da ich schon davon
                                            ausgehe, dass es
                                            entsprechende
                                            Backup-Leitungen gibt.<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                                        </div>
                                        <div class="">
                                          <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                            0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                            font-family: "Times New
                                            Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
                                        </div>
                                        <div class="">
                                          <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                            0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                            font-family: "Times New
                                            Roman", serif;" class="">Ich denke man
                                            sollte sich an dieser Stelle
                                            schon mal die Frage stellen
                                            dürfen wie es sein kann,
                                            dass eine Störung an einem
                                            zentralen Punkt in AT
                                            praktisch alle ISPs in
                                            Österreich dermaßen runter
                                            ziehen kann?<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                                        </div>
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                                          <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                            0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                            font-family: "Times New
                                            Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
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                                          <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                            0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                            font-family: "Times New
                                            Roman", serif;" class=""><PastedGraphic-2.png><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
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                                          <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                            0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                            font-family: "Times New
                                            Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
                                        </div>
                                        <div class="">
                                          <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                            0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                            font-family: "Times New
                                            Roman", serif;" class="">Lg</div>
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      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
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</pre>
    </blockquote>
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